FAMAS F1 civil / MAS .223

[MarkF]

Hello,
unfortunately I do not understand French and the google-translator generates only funny but senseless stuff.
I would like to get all availabe informations about the FAMAS F1 which were made for the civil usage.
As far I understood only some 100 were made in .222 with a long barrel for inner-French-usage and also some 100 were made as MAS .223 in .223 with "normal"-length barrel which were imported into the USA by Century Arms. But there are also a few MAS .223 available in Europe and I wonder why they also have the stamp of Century Arms. Reimports?
I would be a right pleasure if somebody could answer in English.
Best regards, Michael

[macduf]

Hello Michael,

All of 100 famas 223 were manufactured for the US market, some have returned to Europe but very few.

That's why they all have the stamp Century Arms.

Only those in 222R were sold to civilians in France, I have one in 222 and it's stamp MAS

[Banian]

there are a few "gouverment issue" F1 in the French civilian market. I've seen only one and no US marks on it.

As Macduf said, a very few 223R, but non F1, came back there with the CA marking, trough Germany, I think.

[FN-FAL]

Mark Graham (Arizona Response Systems) recently restaured a "civilian" FAMAS that was damaged in New Orléans, while the Katrina hurricane.
Maybe he can tell you some data about the markings found on this item.

[MarkF]

Thanks a lot for your immediate response. I apologize continuing in English
Do you are shure that only 100 MAS .223 were exported to USA? In US-forums pople talkd baout numbers between 120 and 200. And - maybe much more important - I know a MAS .223 sold in Switzerland with the additional marking Century Arms (there is on the left side of the buttstock the "normal" GIAT-made-in-France-marking and below "stamped" in IMHO the same "font" the Century-Arms-marking) and the weapon-no. 302B.

Do you know whether GIAT used the original F1-barrel and F1-block for manufacturing the MAS .223? Visually there is a difference in the barrel; the MAS.223-barrel is outside smooth. The F1 are made for 5,56mm NATO and the manual of the MAS .223 is talking from .223Rem. which mean a very little but a difference.

The "gouverment issue" F1 are "original" F1, originally made for the Army (original F1-barrel and -block) and later convertet to semiauto-only?

[Banian]

The contour barrel is different for sure (grenade launcher capability), but inside ?
I don't think they make a special fabrication for a few FAMAS.

Regarding the receiver, yes, it's different to avoid the possibility to use the the full auto box because the receiver isn't machined for the automatic part.

A French issue FAMAS F1 in civilian market has some definitive modifications and only shoot one by one.

In the 80's, some owner have full auto F1, but now, that's prohibited

[mas36 05]

Sorry for my english :

The MAS product 1000 FAMAS in 222 but I'm not sure about the number of 223 for US civilians ( some one says 100, some one 150 or 200 ).
However, maibe 50 are come back because US BAN.
I' m lucky because I buy one "Century arms "223 last year. The barrel is the same than 222.

Edit : si quelqu' un peut traduire : Tout le système d' armement est semblable aux 222 et aux militaires ( culasse etc ). Le boitier mécanisme est lui aussi semblable entre les 223 et les 222 civils, mais différent et non interchangeables avec les militaires.
Petites différences entre mon ancien 222 et mon 223 : Sur le 223 il y a une bague de réglage de hausse rapide coté crosse sur le porte oeilleton. De même, il y a un coulisseau sur le guidon qui n' était pas sur le 222.
Le cache flammes du 223 comporte la petite encoche pour baïonnette qui n' était pas sur le 222 ( mais les deux caches flammes ne doivent pas accepter la baïonnette de par leur diamètre...)
Le phosphatage sous la crosse me semble différent ( noir sur le 222, gris sur le 223 )...

[laffouine]

. The F1 are made for 5,56mm NATO and the manual of the MAS .223 is talking from .223Rem. which mean a very little but a difference.

The "gouverment issue" F1 are "original" F1, originally made for the Army (original F1-barrel and -block) and later convertet to semiauto-only?

Il me semble que le F1 tire la M193 de 55 gr (avec étui acier de préférence), pas la SS109 de 62 grs, la pas est trop long. Seul les G2 peuvent la tirer.

[C50]

" Il me semble que le F1 tire la M193 de 55 gr (avec étui acier de préférence), pas la SS109 de 62 grs, la pas est trop long. Seuls les G2 peuvent la tirer."

It seems that the F1 is able to shoot de M193 55 gr bullet (preferably with a steel shell) but is unable to stabilize de SS109 62 grains bullet as the twist is too long.
Only the G2 can shoot it .

[JACQUEMET]

It seems that the F1 is able to shoot de M193 55 gr bullet (preferably with a steel shell) but is unable to stabilize de SS109 62 grains bullet as the twist is too long.
Only the G2 can shoot it .

That's correct.

The Famas F1 and the M16A1 are rifles of the same generation.
So, the Famas F1 has got a barrel with a 1 in 12 inches twist ; so, the barrel is only fit for the M193 bullets (55 grains bullets).
SS109 bullets are too heavy and too long for a correct stabilization by its barrel.

[MarkF]

Sorry for my english :
The MAS product 1000 FAMAS in 222 but I'm not sure about the number of 223 for US civilians ( some one says 100, some one 150 or 200 ).

Sure in regard of the MAS .223? As mentioned I know the sale/purchase of the MAS .223 with the no. 302B; I have seen it with my own eyes.

I' m lucky because I buy one "Century arms "223 last year. The barrel is the same than 222.

Sure? The barrel of the .222 seems to be longer than the barrel of the barrel of the .223 and if the barrel would be identical: What would be te difference between .222- and .223-versions?

[MarkF]

The contour barrel is different for sure (grenade launcher capability), but inside ?
I don't think they make a special fabrication for a few FAMAS. ...
A French issue FAMAS F1 in civilian market has some definitive modifications and only shoot one by one.

I have to explain:
In Germany weapons for military usage ("weapons of war") are forbidden for every "normal" person even if they are "converted" to semiauto only when barrel and block are the original "military" parts. This parts must be replaced by parts (expressevely) made not for military usage. So when the original F1 converted to civil usage keep the original barrel and/or block (what is fact I assume) they can not be owned in Germany; no change for a permission, it is still and unchanged a bad and ugly military weapon ("wepaon of war") in the (stupid) German law (war weapon control act). So in Germany the way to e.g. an "original" M16A1 is: Take a M16A1, make it to a defunctional piece of metal by destroying barrel and block (due to the former law; I assume that in concordance with the new law this way would me more expensive now) (which can be done only in foreign countries where owning od this "weapon of war" is legal) so that it can be owned by everybody and can be furhter modified with a normal license, removing destroyed barrel and block, inserting a new barrel and block of the civil AR15-production which is, as far as I know, not 100% compatible (interchangeable) with the military production and of course destroyimg the full-auto/burst-mechanism (or, under the new law, rebuilding the single- and semiauto-mechanism/-function). I know that in F and I and other european countries it is sufficient changing to semiauto only.

[mas36 05]

Sorry for my english :
I' m lucky because I buy one "Century arms "223 last year. The barrel is the same than 222.

Sure? The barrel of the .222 seems to be longer than the barrel of the barrel of the .223 and if the barrel would be identical: What would be te difference between .222- and .223-versions?

If Macduf ( ) can mesure the barrel of his 222, I'll mesure my civilian 223 and we will see. ( disons du garde main jusqu'au bout du cache flammes )

However, I'm sure the barrel of 222 is longer than militarian's FAMAS, and they don't have ( 222 and civilian's 223 ) grenade launcher ( not sure for the traduction )...

[macduf]

Sorry for my english :
I' m lucky because I buy one "Century arms "223 last year. The barrel is the same than 222.

Sure? The barrel of the .222 seems to be longer than the barrel of the barrel of the .223 and if the barrel would be identical: What would be te difference between .222- and .223-versions?

If Macduf ( ) can mesure the barrel of his 222, I'll mesure my civilian 223 and we will see. ( disons du garde main jusqu'au bout du cache flammes )

However, I'm sure the barrel of 222 is longer than militarian's FAMAS, and they don't have ( 222 and civilian's 223 ) grenade launcher ( not sure for the traduction )...

To my 222R,

the barrel length between the front of the hand-guard and the tip of the flash-hider =19cm

[mas36 05]

OK, the 223 Century Arm's barrel is shorter 14,5cm.
Maibe the same longer of the militarian's FAMAS